001 Innovating Med-tech with Vishnu MS

Vineeth 0:00

9s Design Insight is a podcast in helping designers on their journey to finding their niche in design through insightful conversations with designers from different domains. Today we are joined by Wish to Ms, a talented designer, engineer and an entrepreneur with a passion for innovation. Wish New is the founder of Evelabs, a medical technology company that develops innovative solutions for healthcare. Eve Labs products are designed to improve the quality of care for patients and make health care more efficient, and he's always looking for new ways to push the boundaries of what's possible. I'm really excited to have him on the show today and I know you'll enjoy hearing a story. Welcome to the Design Insight podcast. When you did your Masters from NID, how did you come to know about it after your engineering? And being from Kerala where the mainstream careers are engineering, doctors and so

Vishnu 1:00

on, so I'd like to start with my place to days when I used to do a lot of art, I used to do painting and all. And then later on when I thought of what I wanted to become, then I was thinking of more england was engineering because that was an in thing which was there, which everybody knew that you can go to engineering after plus two. And then I tried for architecture at that time after plus two and I got selected for architecture. But I was with Doubtful regarding the field. And also I was also interested in engineering. So the fact that I was interested in engineering was that I liked electronics and I was thinking that I will be able to make. New things with electronics and all. So I used to go through the silhouettes of my brother and see 2s he was having courses on TV, all those things. He was in engineering. Yeah, he was in engineering. So I thought engineering might be a best course so that I can go there and try to make things. So that was one reason I applied for engineering. But say I was interested in electronic computer science and a little bit of mechanical. So I was also confused, I mean, which one to take. Then I got selected to electrical engineering because way different from all these fields. And I did electrical engineering and it was interesting throughout the course. And another aspect that I had in engineering was we were into campus politics, which actually made me think deeper into how our actions are going to affect people. 1s So this also helped me to understand that where I used to do a lot of artwork in college and some of them was mostly into visual communication aspects and those used to actually relate well to the people over there. And that was a means of communication, which I realized that can really work out in moving people as well as motivating them or I mean, about a communication to the community. That's where I started thinking of design as a thing that you can take forward. I mean, you can design new things and then move people as well as communicate with them. So that's where I started thinking of designing. But I was never into making stuff as such. It was more of visual communication where you make logos and those kind of things. So then. 1s Then I had this interest in engineering. Then I actually tried of going for Gate. I was thinking of applying for Gate because I wanted to study further and also so I had backlogs in engineering, but I was really interested in computer science. 1s I was also not sure in which field I should go after engineering because I was interested in computer science. I used to do a little bit of mechanical engineering and stuff like that and I learned electrical. So this was a mix. 3s After this engineering I came across Seed as an option and Masters in Design as an option. But still I was a little bit skeptical about that because 2s I still not sure what is design because I didn't understand that this is something that I really wanted to do. I mean, making new things, that's what design is about, right? So I didn't realize at that time. And then I slowly started exploring the portfolio and works which was done in IDC and through this DSource website and all. Then I started realizing that this is something interesting in which you can create something new. So then I applied to Seed and I got cleared for Seed in the first exam. But I had my engineering exams also in parallel. So I was not able to attend the interviews there. I was able to attend two interviews, one in IAC and Guahati. Those interviews were really bad for me. I mean, it was very hard and I was not able to answer any of the questions over there. And there were questions like did you waste your time in time of four years in engineering? Like if you have an interest in design, then you could have joined VDAs. 1s I actually came across design when I went through the Gate website and then only I realized that there's something called Masters in Design. So that's where I started again, thinking of this harder. So I didn't get through the interview. And I had a lot of work which was done in college as well as I used to do freelance web design. So I had a lot of work in interface design even before going to that interview. Then I didn't get selected there. Then it was really hard for me to accept also that time because I had a lot of work, but I was not able to present that also to the jury. Not the jury, the interview panel over there. Then I thought I'll stay for one year and then do some freelance and then try to. 1s Do it. Give it a chance. One more. And then I stayed in Chamandum for an year. I took a diploma in Product Design where I learned SolidWorks because I thought learning that would help me to get into such courses. 1s Okay? 1s So that is something which I did for that one year and I did freelance works in between. And I started learning about design also. Then I came across NID. So I didn't know that NID as an institute exists. And then I came across NID and I saw the work which has been done in NID also. Then still I was skeptical about the fact that I've heard about I 80s many number of times, but I haven't heard much about NID. So then I started going into this that I mean, or put was the social media thing. So I used to go to these groups and then see what people are talking about, this and all those things. So then I realized NID is also a big institute. And I started looking into the alumni's over there. Where are they working right now? What are they doing? So I got a little bit of interest and then I applied to the NID entrance as well for two courses. One is numerator design and interface design. And then the NID question paper was really interesting to me because it was not much inclined to as engineering, but you need to have a basic understanding of engineering or anything that you're going to. So even the interview process was really interesting to me 2s compared to the IAT interviews. So then I started I went there, 2s I got selected to the first round and then we had these interviews and Studio Test. So I went to Bangalore for the Studio test and 1s I had the Studio test for information and interface design over there. And then I went to Hamdabad for the new Media Design Studios test. So that time I had a chance to visit NID Amdabad Paldi campus. And when I actually went through the Design Street over there, that was really moving and that was a place where I wanted to be, that moved me a lot. The Design Street was really exciting and I used to call back home and tell that this is someplace I wanted to be. 2s I have seen people drawing sketching and all but I haven't seen such sort of perfection in the work. So that really motivated me to be there. Then I started. 1s Exploring the reason why an ID was started and all those things. I went through Ames report and then it became even more interesting for me, the culture, everything. I mean, how would they treat the students and all. So it became even more interesting to me and then I started thinking that I should definitely get selected here. So one of the major drawbacks that I had that time was I was not able to articulate well. I was not able to articulate things really well. So then I thought in the interview maybe I'll fail. So I designed a portfolio in such a way that it was made of initially I went with a book. So the problem with the book when I went for the interview in Goahati was that the problem with the book is that it's mostly used to not turn things, not to press and stuff. So I had a portfolio book 2s which was lying down on the table, like in front of the interview panel, but none of them took it. So then I thought it's easier to have some sort of boxes or something instead four boxes or something which will fall down when I'm giving it so that people have a tendency to take each boxes and then look at it. So each of those boxes had two of my works. Then I had a better chance of interaction there because four people are having my portfolio different, different works at the same time and we have very less time in the interview also. Right? So there were a lot of questions around my work which I was able to answer easily because my English was also bad right that time. So I thought it's easier for me to speak about something which I've done. But if there are some other questions hard for me 1s that also sort of worked out in the interview, helped me in the interview because there were a lot of questions around my work which I have done. So I was able to answer those questions and the interview was really good also. It was very open interview in which they have asked questions on our perception of life, everything. It was very open. So then I got selected to these two courses and I opted for new media without knowing that new media is an interesting field. I opted for new media because it was in Amdabad. Smoke. 1s Yeah, it's in Gandhinagar. I mean, though it's in Gandhinagar, I mean, we have access to this Amdabad campus. So this Paldi campus was so inspiring. So then I thought, I mean, it's also better to be in a campus which has multiple domains compared to Bangalore. Bangalore had three courses that time and Amdabh campus definitely have a more number of courses. And I thought it's better to be there and being from being a carelight also, I wanted to be in Amdabad because if you go to Bangalore, you won't get that culture change. 1s I think being in Amdabad has definitely changed me a lot. I mean, you suddenly get this culture shock also when you go there, so you also learn from a lot of those experiences. So in that way, that thing was really good for me. I mean, going to Amdabad, selecting new media, so that's where it started. So that's how I went to NID.

Vineeth: 11:57

How did you convince your parents to take up design? As parents are usually not very accepting,

Vishnu: 12:03

so for me, it was not hard to convince them. 2s They were really supportive 1s even when I got into architecture. It was my father who told me that you should go for architecture rather than engineering. So I was the one who told that I liked engineering more. So it was the other way around for me. 1s They also supported me in going to Design Institute. 2s Even for these interviews and all. They were really supportive, 1s not from a job kind of perspective. And they were really supportive in that way. I had a different experience there.

Vineeth: 12:43

After your graduation, you did an internship at Microsoft. How was your experience and what did you learn from it?

Vishnu: 12:50

So first thing, I mean, getting selected to Microsoft was really a huge thing for me because that is something it's very huge thing for everyone. Maybe because that's an oil which you have seen for years, so many years you have seen it and getting to work in that team is like a dream for you. 2s That part was really interesting for me. I mean getting into Microsoft then once I got in there, I learned a lot from the work culture, how the work is being done there, how the design is being done there. There were presentations which we had daily. 2s We got a lot of ideas and there was good peer learning from there. But when you see from 1s because I have done new media, it was less interesting for me. I was more inclined towards art when I was doing new media design, like in terms of installations. So I was also interested to make useless things rather than useful things. When you are in Microsoft, you naturally have to think of useful things and designers are actually 2s tuned to make useful things 1s art in a way it makes you understand yourself 1s when if you make anything, it makes you understand yourself. Like after some point of time you'll think why you made. That installation at that point of time you'll think about your thought process at that point of time and maybe it's good or maybe it's bad or you are thinking in a certain way at that point of time when you are doing that work. So that was sort of 1s interesting to me as well because when you do those kind of work, it's very personal and you also get to know what you are and who you are based on that you can improve your work. That was interesting, but when it comes to a user based design, 1s it's more rational and you have to think inside a box. That was something which I felt was lacking in the book. It needs to be like that for design when you're doing a UX design or something so it needs to be always use centric and it needs to be like that because there are constraints. So working inside constraint is interesting but if it's too much of constraint, then you'll have to work for long. Then it became boring for me. 2s So I had done this project on this medical device repo 2s final project in NID so I had a very basic prototype which was looking like a boom that time. So that was a prototype that I had. And then I thought I should try doing this as my diploma project. And Zignage, my coordinator, was also really inspiring. As well as pushing me to do this, he was also telling that it's better if you do the other project as a diploma project and take it further ahead and make it as a product rather than having it as a so. Usually in design colleges, we have a certain time limit in which we love to complete. So in that time limit, we'll be able to make up till certain level. So after that, if you need to do, you need to work on it quite a lot. So then I thought I'll take that as a design project and then move further. So that's where I started thinking of querying from Microsoft and 1s I stopped the internship after five months and then I moved to Kochin two start working on this Idea so I had a friend over there from NID so he had a company and he had a space in Startup Village. I was also interested in startups, but not really I didn't have the guts to actually we do a startup so I went there and then I worked for some time then again I started feeling that okay, that's also not that great, I mean. I had a lot of work also that time. Then I started all the money which I bought from during the internship also started getting less. So you need some way to get money also. Right? Then I thought I should go for some job again and take up some job again. And then I was going through the 2s companies and Moonraft was really interesting thing to me because I'd seen their works. I went to Banglore for the interview. I applied to Moonraft and I wanted to be there also. It was just like NID. So this company was also interesting in that way. 2s Luckily, I got selected in Moonraft and then I worked in Moonraft for a year. That was really interesting. It in my design career. If you say 4s that's the experience with Microsoft. If I say that, then after that I was working in Moonraft.

Vineeth: 17:59

From a designer to an entrepreneur, the journey was not a straight one. So how did you go about it and what were the challenges that you faced?

Vishnu: 18:09

So so I started thinking of doing it as a startup when I was actually doing the internship in Microsoft. And then what happened was that so you have to take the risk at some point of life. I knew that you'll have to stop everything and then start doing it again. So I didn't have the gut. So I started thinking of this for a year. Even when I was working in Moon draft. The work was really interesting for me over there in Moonraft as a designer, I was lucky enough to get very good work as well as very good. I mean, I was able to interact with very good team in Moonraft, which has helped me to have an understanding on how a project is done. 1s Moonraft also had a sort of startup kind of culture. So that also helped me to understand how the industry works and how the project is being delivered and how they work it out. That helped me there. And then again, after some point of time, Bangalore life became boring for me. Maybe because there's no risk, you're getting paid every month and you do the work and it's like that. There's no change that's happening. But the work I should say the work was really interesting, but maybe because there's no change that's happening, I got bored of it. I got bored of the life in Bangalore as such. I mean, you go there to work and then you work and come back. Then I realized I should try and do this startup. So then I called up my friend Sanjay, 1s who was actually one of my co in engineering. So he used to do electronics. Well, then I thought, if I'm starting up, I should have a team. Otherwise, if I do it alone, it's very hard to strive because there will be a lot of issues that coming up. And then I thought, call up Sanjay. And 1s I also discussed with Sudi. So she was my partner, and she's my life partner also. So I discussed with her and then she told, okay, then we can start up. We can do the startup. And then another thing, Sanjay also I asked him whether he's interested to join to such a venture. So he was teaching in college of engineering through Random that time. And then I asked him and he also said yes to me. So he initially thought that it's like, I'm just saying that I'll start up, but I won't do it. But when I got an yes from him, I went to 1s CEO of Moonraft and I went to my 2s mentor over there. Then I told that I'm planning to quit in a month or so. And 1s the CEO of Moonraft was a really helpful person. He also told me that it'll take almost like six years to get this thing done. 1s It's good to do a startup. You learn a lot of things, and it take almost like six years to get it stable and get it there where you want it to be. So I didn't have any clue when I actually started. Then I thought, okay, I should at least try this out because I have the time now and I should try this out now. Otherwise I won't try it ever in my life. So that was the only thing that made me quit 2s without doing that, there's no question. So I quit the job. Then I came down to Srijitra. Srijitra had already selected this project. That was another reason which gave me a validation that 1s say, if a hospital is selecting this project for incubation, there's some to it. So other than I didn't have a background in medicine or anything like that, when a hospital selected that, I thought, that's interesting, I should pursue that. And then we got incubated as Eve Labs in cerebral Science tour Medical Sciences in 2016. Like almost like the end of 2016. 1s Then we started working as a startup. So three member team. 1s So that is how it started. 2s So after that, 4s I'm from a design background and Sanjay is from engineering and studies from a communications and research background. So we started working on the product and we had one iteration. We thought we would roll out the product in a year, but we had a lot of iterations because this is some product which is actually being used by users. And there's a culture involved in setting the IV rate. So the product seems to be really simple, but there's a culture involved in setting the Ivy rate. So we are actually trying to change that culture, that process in the hospital. So that's where it becomes really complex as a product. So you'll have to fine tune the user interface to that level so that it's usable and it's not causing any additional time to nurses. So all those things come in, so we also need to identify which one is the exact USB that nurse is looking for. So all those things came later. 1s So we have rolled out the product now. So it took that long to actually refine the product to this date? Yeah, almost four years. And it took us around like two or three years to learn also to how to actually make a medical device, because that's a stringent area to actually pursue engineering or design. It's very stringent in terms of standards and regulation which are there in different countries. So these were some things which we didn't have any idea initially on. 1s We had a lot of time, we had to learn it over time. We had to learn through our mistakes itself. 2s That's how we started. And it's almost like we have launched the product now. 2s During

Vineeth: 24:27

this time, that is four years. What were some of the resources or people that have helped you as you were to apply for a lot of patents, grants, certifications

Vishnu: 24:34

So, first thing, we were incubated in Srijitra. So Srijitra has a pool of scientists who have knowledgeable in designing medical devices. So that was an advantage. So we used to get a lot of information from them regarding how we need to design the product. And that has helped us to take the product further ahead from a prototype to an actual product. And then again, we got a first wanting, we work for six months and again I had some savings from ownra. So that also 2s like getting that also was also getting empty. I mean, my accounts were getting empty after six months and we were thinking we'll stop this and 2s we'll move to home and we'll work from there because we didn't have money to stay in Trivandrum and work. We were thinking like that and we were also parallel showing this product to few investors in Kerala. And my friend Anuk from Agrima, he had an investor and he connected us to that investor. So we went and pitched to the investor. So he was also looking at the product and he hasn't invested in the hardware product and that to a medical device. With that much of regulations in place, he was connected to other people also. So he introduced this product to another person called George. So he was into medical device domain for almost like more than 20 years. So he had a very good experience in the domain. So he also showed some interest in the product and that's where the investment came in. So it was after an onum, we actually got the investment. So we were thinking we'll stop this by that onum and we'll go home. And that's like a break, right? So we'll be there and then we'll see whether we'll get an investment. So initially we thought we'd be able to do it in six lakhs. We'd be able to get the product rolled out to the market in six lakhs. So we asked for that much amount and he told that six lakhs is like nothing, which he can take this product further ahead. Like even for a software startup, it would require more amount. So he invested a bit higher amount initially and it was almost like 48 lakhs, which they together invested. And that helped us to make a prototype, a product, kind of product, working product, which can be validated in hospital. So that's where the initial investment came in. 3s So this was from an angel investor perspective. But then we got support from Kela starter mission. We had this product which we can show that we can at least show it to a hostel and demo the hostel. With that, we also understood the complexities of the product. With that proto that we had, we had a WiFi based prototype. So with that we understood the complexities of installation. So we just imagined it as a product which is going to be used by nurse. But when we actually went to hostel, we realized that there are multiple stakeholders whom this product is going to be. I mean, biomedical engineer who needs to calibrate the device and then there is a CEO of the hospital or the director level people whom you have to actually demo the product. So all these interfaces are actually made in a way that it suits well to all these stakeholders. So when I was designing, it was just one stakeholder, the actual user, that's not but now there are multiple stakeholders like the distributor, 1s who might actually have to dismantle the device in a client site and then maybe change the battery. So he's also one of the person who is actually working on the product. So we had to imagine the product as our own entire system now and to work the product backward like that, I mean, you have to imagine how a person is going to disassemble and change the battery. Then if there is a clamping part to it, how? How is that clamping part like, what is the shipping cost of that clamping part? Do we need to keep it inside the packaging? Do we need to keep an additional clamping mechanism inside the packaging? First of all, when you ship the product itself, so these things come later on because if you see that the clamping mechanism is going to get a mechanical problem at some point of time, so you'll have to send another part by courier, right? So that would cost you RS200, so the actual part cost you like less than 20. So why not keep one part inside the existing box so that the people can get and then use it at a later point of time? These kind of insights we actually got when we started pitching the hospitals and started selling the devices in money to the hospital. So we started doing pilots and all. So we have incorporated those insights further into the product and now it has become stable in that way. I mean, multiple of these inputs come in and that's what actually builds the product into and takes it to the market. And we also did one mistake where we made the product in WiFi. 1s So we thought hostels might have might have WiFi routers and you can repeat the routers and increase the range. So the major problem that we face was that we wired two hospitals. We wired routers in two hospitals and we went there and did the wiring for did the land wiring for two hospitals because hospitals won't do it because that's an additional expense for them. And we want our products to be tried out by the hospital learners. So there was no option. So we went there and we did the land networking for two hospitals. And then we realized that we'll be more like a networking company who is going to make WiFi networks or hospitals. Then we thought this is not an ideal model to scale up. 1s Then we thought we should change that and we should change it to another protocol. So that's what we changed. 1s We had almost burned the money, which we initially got. Then we applied to BIRAC big grant. So that time we had a basic idea on the product and how it should be and we also knew that we need to test for different 1s protocols and see which one is feasible for installation, all those things. So still it was not a product in that way. I mean, even I was not in a situation to send this product in a box to some hospital. So I didn't have that courage to send it because I know that there are glitches. So then big grant came in, which was another big chunk of amount which we go to ideate on the 1s WiFi, 1s on the connectivity side, on the controlling aspect of it. So those kind of aspects

Vishnu: 31:39

we had that money and we used that to ideate on all these issues that we had when we actually had in the field. So we ideated and came up with the version which we are rolling out to market now. So that's the sort of final version which we have right now. So after that we have got support from Say in terms of activation program. ISB Dlaps activation program was really good and that has helped us a lot in terms of understanding it from a business perspective. So we are trained as designers or even engineers. So we think of the product more. But when you think of things from the side of business, it's a lot more about how you see your company after a certain point of time and how you project yourself in five years. It's not just one product that you're going to sell in the market. 3s ISB's Program changed our perspective to see this as a company rather than a product. 1s We started thinking of it from that perspective, that time and we started scaling slowly with people, we started hiring people and we started scaling slowly and we started moving faster in terms of installation and we also implemented certain procedures. I mean, we had a good project management setup which we actually got from ISV program. So. Even pitching pitching to investors. So those things would fine tune when we had this program in ISD acceleration program. So then after that we have gone through multiple programs like Derby's acceleration program in Bangladesh which is really helpful in terms of getting the right connect with people. So one of the major thing for a medical device company is to implement a quality management system. Implementing quality management system is very hard if you don't have any basics or background in it. So we got help from one Mr. Sriram who was actually being connected through Derby. So he helped us implement the production line as well as the entire quality management system for the company so that it gets organized and work like an actual company. Now, even if I'm not there, the company is going to work. So that's how it should be. It should not be dependent on people. After some point of time it should roll by itself. So that's my perspective on the company. So it should be a system by itself and it should work by itself independent of people and it should have that culture also which we have imbibed to it. Or maybe as a founders we can imbibe certain culture. Like I have seriously 2s very much inclined towards design. 2s I've inculcated that mindset to most of the base team members now. So they also look everything from that perspective now and that way it's interesting even in terms of getting the interface right, they work for at least like six months, the engineers in our team 1s getting some basic stuff right also the way we want it in design. So they really understand that and then they work for it. So that is something that I feel we as a company has inculcated deeply in terms of design. Maybe because we were from a design background, we had that stringent thing towards design also, that it should work should look well or 1s everything should be really well in terms of design. So we don't look much into engineering aspects in that way. Again 1s later on, when you think of engineering also, I mean say you have other things like say production which you're doing on the device. So those things also we cater to right now and we have implemented the QMS right now with the help of Mr. Sriram. And after that COVID happened and then it was a huge blow to every company all over the world. So we were planning to launch the product and that's the time where we are planning to start this production slowly and everything shut off for like three months. So we didn't have any work to do that time. We thought about what to do and we revamped our entire software stack during that time and we had a basic software stack which is made of brain by our first employee. 1s He also didn't have time to look back on it because he'll be working on another stuff later. Point of time. So we revamped the entire software stack and made it more stable. And we were also very confident with that. With the software stack. So we worked on the software stack during the lockdown and then again we had a runway of let's say another one year maximum. And then we got another grant from under COVID conversion code right now to research on further advancements of these devices as well as to produce few units and select market. So so this is our status right now. So we have got support from Kerala government, department of Biotechnology, different acceleration programs. We got selected to driver universities and UNDP program, which was also really good in terms of mentorship. These programs have helped us understand how to do a startup, how to work in a company. So now if I'm doing another startup, I know what to do really well. So in terms of setting up the account right or setting up the team in the right way. So those things I've learned since I've started this,

Vineeth: 37:28

if you had to give some pointers, what would that be like? These are the things that you would do right in your next startup

Vishnu: 37:33

Something that I would do definitely in the next startup is one thing is like have defined roads for everyone and 1s have the accounting properly done so that you know that actually money is the key there. In business, money is the key. So you need to know where your money is going and where your money is coming from, leave you there. And another thing is if you go for investments, have the basic proto and sort of workable product there before going for an investment and have the basic feel from the investor, unless it's a deep tech startup. So have the basic product with you and that makes a lot of difference. And if you have customers when you go for investment, that's really great. So that's something that I would definitely do. When I do the next startup, I'd have a clear idea on my sales and go to marketing plan if I do my next startup. So that's where I would start it. 1s So design is a part of it. I'm not saying that design is going to change everything. We have design thinking everywhere, like even in sales process can do that. So we can do a lot more in that way. But you have certain process which you like say in terms of the sales, I definitely think of it. How you're going to sell this stuff. When I started this one, I didn't have that idea. So it was a user centric private sales people. 1s These are something which I definitely look for. Even if I have an idea, 1s how am I going to sell it?

Vineeth: 39:23

Yes, selling is an important

Vishnu: 39:24

skill. Yeah.

Vineeth: 39:27

What is something that you would say to a young design who would like to start something in healthcare and medical space?

Vishnu: 39:34

So for a young designer, there are a lot of avenues in India right now. So when we started, we didn't know that such avenues exist. So one is BIRAC as a department of Bio under department of biotechnology. So BIRAC funds for new and innovative medical devices and biotechnology and agriculture related project. If you have an idea, then you can create a startup and then you can 2s pitch to Buy rack for this grant. So this is like you can get an amount of 15 lakhs. I guess the 1s applications are open right now. Also every six months it's there. So you can apply for that and you can get a grant and then you can start up and you can have the product done which you can take to market and test out with users. So that's where you can actually start over thinking about the business and scaling up and getting the investments. So buyrack is one avenue which you can definitely look at if you're trying to do a startup. So another type of program which is under all these incubators like Timed or even in Mecca Village. So they have this entrepreneur in residence program. So we can get there, get in there and then do search on a problem. And then you can make the product there itself. You will get the support and you'll get the funding for making the product. You'll also get a stipend for being there and working on the project. This type in usually it's for like one year or one and a half year and you can get that and you can have a solid project done and the product also made. So this page, you can scale the company further. 2s That's a good way to actually go through because you have these support systems right now. 3s I would see that even if a designer has an idea, it's better to go through that state because before forming company also you'll have an idea on how to do certain things when you go for that. Programs then there is Stanford Bio design program which is also another interesting program which we can apply to and then there are a lot of accelerator programs also which take people in for like EA or entrepreneur interest so that is something that people can look at. There are a lot of accelerated programs. I've seen one with Idea also I forgot the name so you can go with them 2s or something like that so you can actually work with them and then create your product and you can scale it as a startup. Idea, as a venture, idea Ventures is also there, 1s they will look at the product and then they can invest in your idea. 3s There are a lot of avenues in that way in going to a startup like if you want to pursue a startup and if you want to pursue a career in 1s medical device it's better that you have good understanding and usability because that's something which is very critical for medical device. So there are usability standards which you can refer to I think it's six two three double six IEZ. Six, two, three, double six. And there's one risk management standard, 14971. So if you refer to these standards, that standards actually define process, which you need to do 1s in design itself to make the devices error free, make the devices risk free. So that can actually help designers to actually have an idea on how the product is going to work or how may it cause if there is a failure, how am I going to actually address that failure? When I used to design before I didn't used to think of those things. See this device, this specific device can go out of internet connection anytime so how am I going to address that and alert the user at that right point of time so that there is no problem that is being caused in the hospital because of that issue. So those kind of things there are multiple processes which you can use for doing the usability things I mean there are multiple process and risk management also which can use for that so that goes more into usability itself. So that is something which will become handy for a designer if they're looking specifically for joining in medical device of me. 1s So that's one thing which I've learned additional to what I've learned in design being doing a medical device design so even heuristics evaluation those things I've learned in deep when I started working on this medical device. 1s So that is something that people can look into. 1s

Vineeth: 44:34

You started as a prototype so how did you iterate on the design? So

Vishnu: 44:38

one major thing was 2s with electronic size. I made the initial proto with Arduino and most of these facilities were there. In NID there was a lesser cutting machine which we used to make basic prototypes. And I tested the POC and then after that 2s had to actually make the product in the shape that I wanted to. Then I did industrial and did get some shapes and all and then started exploring the foam. Then I had an idea on SolidWorks. So I used to work with SolidWorks and make 3d models and all. So I work with 3d models that time. And 3d printing was also quite new. In 2014, there were very less places. Like, I used to go to workbench in Bangalore to do 3d printing that time and that too, it was hard for me because you need to go there. Like, I was I was actually working in the office in Moondra and then I bought a 3d printer myself. 1s So I thought that's the best option because you can try out anything yourself. So I bought a 3d printer in 2014 and that was the first gadget that I bought out of my salary from Ownraft. So I bought a 3d printer and people say that I'm weird to buy a 3d printer at the first gadget out of the salary that you get. I bought this 3d printer that actually helped me to refine the product further. And Moonraft was also really helpful and they allowed me to keep the printer there in their office and then work on it because you need to have a constant power supply to make it work. I used to work there in Moon Draft, in Night. Also, to get this thing done, I used to work along with other projects to work on this product. 2s That's where I started prototyping this product. Further, then I learned eagle software to make the PCBs and programming done in Eagle then soldering was another, harder part because you have to solder smaller components now and I wasted a lot of money in buying a lot of these parts and wasting them by leaning to solder and after, let's say 15 or 20 iterations in the product itself. So I was able to create a product which is small enough when which can be clamped to the drip chamber and it actually works. So it has everything inside. It has the interface and everything. So that was done 2s because I had a 3d printer. I actually made the product that time. So if I didn't go for that, I would have stopped the iteration because iteration is the key there. I mean, you need to iterate iterate iteration again and again to come to that phone. So that was done with the help of three dependent. And then I had to learn Eagle, then I also had to learn how to send these files to the fab house for getting the PCBs done. And sourcing components was also really hard that time because I didn't have any idea on where to source from because I was in Bangalore, I used to drop down to few of these places like Fabulab and get the components from there. So that is how it was done. 1s Learned programming. Programming. I knew I knew embedded C before. And then I learned Eagle. I learned this one SolidWorks also I've learned before these were the tools which was used mostly 1s now I'm using Onshape which is a cloud based software for three a modeling which is much more easier and you don't need to install a software 1s you don't get it for free.

Vineeth: 48:29

Is on shape free?

Vishnu: 48:31

On Shape is free and it's free and open. Also, you can get other drawings and all can get a lot of assets. So in that way, On Shape is really interesting to me. I hope On Shape comes up as a big thing now. It's very simple and easy to use compared to Solo. That's what I have. So I've completely shifted to Onshape now because you need basic things, right, to do the 3D modeling. So onshev is really interesting. Saturating 1s with

Vineeth: 49:01

Eve Labs, you said that this is not just a product. So what are your future plans with Evilabs?

Vishnu: 49:07

We'll be looking at simple products, not high end medical devices, but simple product which can solve small issues. And we'll be looking at, say, nursing station as a center in the hospital, because that's where the actual work happens and the actual works get delivered to the patient for an IP scenario. So if you see from a nursing station perspective, like if you just go and sit there, also you can see multiple issues which are there for nurses in terms of logging the data, there are multiple things that happens. And then there are a lot of other people also, I mean, say in terms of hygiene compliance, in terms of getting these data or logging these data, they love to monitor different things. And nurses have a lot of work that they have to do. So we'll be looking at solutions which can actually help them to do this work in a better way. So sometimes through IoT or sometimes through software. So that would be our area of interest, mostly looking at an IP scenario, looking at from a nursing station perspective as a center where every work is getting delivered. So that's where you can actually affect the patient experience. Also, you can work on the patient experience from the nursing station because that's where the work starts for the patient 1s in the what. So we won't be looking more into ICUs also in that way, because 1s even the medical device space is very crowded in that way. There are a lot of devices, there are a lot of monitors, 2s a lot of vital monitors. Even infusion monitors, our product, we have like commoditors outside India. We also have comedy. So it's it's a crowded space and it it's interesting in that way.

Vineeth: 50:54

Thank you so much, Vishnu, for this insightful and informative

Vishnu: 50:57

session. Okay, thank you for inviting me to this session. And it's a nice initiative also from your end, so that we can also seek out about our experiences. And I'll also understand what 1s a person is thinking from a student's perspective, what they might be thinking. I also was thinking of these things. I mean, how would you how would I get there? How would I be there? So and there's no one way to this. I mean, it's just like I mean, you go through it. I mean, you just get out of the I mean, say you just quit your job, then you start doing something and you are at it, then you'll keep on doing it and if you get more bored of it, then quit it, do something else. That's it. So that's what I feel about it. 2s Some people say that if you work really hard, you're going to succeed. I don't believe in that. Also, even if you work hard, if you're happy with your work, then that's fine. I mean, you work hard or work less, be happy with what you're doing. 1s Sometimes you'll succeed and success is also it depends, right? It depends on how you see.

Vineeth: 52:09

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